a necessary callout post

a necessary callout post


The skin tone slider is missing unsaturated white/gray, blue, and literally pitch-black which are surprisingly common in character creation


Don't forget green for some reason


And red, remember Sims 3?


Sims 4 also has green and red for some reason


But unlike 3, 4 is seriously lacking when it comes to *real* skintones.


yeah they are working on that. Afaik there is gonna be a huge skintone update this december


Bit late really


Better late than never


Dang it. I'm stuck with legacy edition


Ngl while I'm sure a lot of people must be really exited about being able to get better skintones and stuff(and I'm happy about it too) but I low-key hope they add more unrealistic skin tones, I want to make my character to be pastel pink


As with most things in sims 4, create a style or at least a color wheel would be SO appreciated


Colour wheel! Colour wheel! Colour wheel!


Dark Souls 2. It's easy to make a character that looks like Shrek but famn near impossible to have a realistic black man.


Are you sure? I don't fully remember II's character creation but I know in 3 you pretty much have full control of the RGB value.




I mean I like going pitch black whenever a game lets me. I like being a walking silhouette. Like invading another world in dark souls looking like a "you haven't unlocked this character yet".


Ngl, pitch black with golden eyes is really cool.


Can confirm


Personally I go violet (if it's an option) but I won't deny that.


I ALWAYS use purple eyes, any time I can. They're so cool.




I choose bright white because the fact that you can just fucking emanate light that way in ds2 left a mark on me and it was funny as fuck


are you saying the ability to become troll is bad actually i can see why


I don’t know if that’s Homestuck or not


That skin tone lineup looks like your average makeup foundation launch too. That was the first thing I thought of.


beautyblender has entered the chat or more like every single beauty brand in the world before rihanna released fenty has entered the chat, lol


[also looking at you, tarte](https://i.imgur.com/FZVsbeC.jpg).




LMAO the original shade lineup for the tarte shape tape foundation. I haven't used a single one of their products since that launched. Clowns.


Oh God, I remember that launch. My favourite part of the whole shitshow was when [Tarte claimed](https://www.revelist.com/beauty-news-/tarte-defended-shape-tape/11241/instead-of-admitting-colorism-is-the-real-driving-force-behind-their-limited-shade-range-catch-the-tea--the-brand-wants-us-to-know-theres-a-different-method-to-its-madness/1) they were releasing the shades seasonally, and would release the darker shades in the summer when we all get tanned and apparently change races.


Yeah some companies try to do the whole "we're working on darker shades and will release them later" like oh ok I guess poc just aren't your priority


???? Did they forget that black people are black all year??


I’m brown, I can confirm that I disappear in the winter and only exist in summer


I..... am not a fan of cancel culture but man should they get cancelled for that 💀


Looking at the lighter shades there, literally clown make-up, lol


Daaang, guess my pasty ass found a new vocation. I'm not wearing those ridiculous outfits though


Those are some large shoes you have to fill.


Some of us actually do need that. Not an excuse for not including darker shades, but I have been mistaken for an albino in the past.


I love how the unintentionally made themselves look bad by hiring a POC to model the shades but not having one that matched the model.


they made their lightest shades look way too similar and look pasty/clownish as hell lmao. anyway fuck tarte


Probably beauty reviewer or YouTuber did this. It’s a pretty common thing to swatch new makeup on your arm to show people the range.


Ah yes, are you white, white, white, white, or black?




Yes... As a brown woman, every time I purchase a new foundation I am this close to accidentally commiting a hate crime


I'm sorry, that's some bullshit. Seems like more companies are trying to put out better ranges (thank you Fenty) but yeah. It's such a huge problem. I love watching Nyma Tang because she reviews the darkest shade from a bunch of different brands and calls out the ones that are really not inclusive Edit: [linking Nyma's video about the Tarte thing because she's fucking gorgeous and more people need to watch her](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iq7eu7Pozk)


Yeah there are much better ranges of colors nowadays which is great. My skin tone is kind of a lighter tan and it always falls smack in the middle of the options that a lot of brands offer. It's not impossible to find a match but it does take some looking. My mom has a darker skin tone than me and it's especially difficult to find a brand that works for her. Now there are a lot more options than just a few years ago. The challenge is to find something that is also not super expensive And thank you for the link! I'll check out her videos


Out of interest, how do you find the newer ranges of estee Lauder doublewear, lancome, and the Revlon dupe? I'm white but I've noticed a shift in some brands recently in the UK towards more options for darker skin tones, but I'm not sure how meaningful this is.


Not OP but I am a brown woman. Estee Lauder Doublewear is pretty good in terms of shade range imo and one of my go-tos. Lancome Teint Idole also has a decent shade range... [however the shade range for their Lift Makeup Foundation is absolutely pathetic](https://www.lancome-usa.com/makeup/face/foundation/renergie-lift-makeup-foundation-spf-27/LAN471.html#start=3&cgid=L3_MakeUp_Face_Foundation). Look at the shades, it literally looks like this pic lmao. Can't speak for Revlon since I've never used it.


10 white tones 1 yellow tone, 1 black tone lmaooo


Not a single person mentioned the Mii creator, which has pretty diverse skintones and a very well made slim to fat slider.


I would've still liked more skintones. They could've done the same thing as with hair, eyes, and eyebrows


I can forgive the Mii creator because of technical limitations (note I'm talking about DS and 3DS Mii creator, since I have no experience with other versions) but most games don't get that excuse.


The switch version has lots of colors for hair and eyes. Sure, it's missing some shades of certain colors, but at least it has all "base colors". On the other hand, skin color options haven't really changed


The extra hair (and maybe eye) colors actually came from the 3DS game Miitopia, interestingly. You could copy Miis from there to the Mii Maker, but they didn't convert well. For instance, the characters with pure yellow hair did not become blonde.




Kinda... theres more to obesity than increasing the size of the stomach area. Modded Skyrim is the only game I know of where an actual belly exists, and even then it's not perfect because it doesn't hang over the groin or really act on the groin at all. Now that I think about it, Saints Row 2? Haven't played it in many years so it's hard to remember, but I think that was pretty accurate iirc. Had a great fat character on that back in the day who still hasn't found any other representation because so few games allow him to exist.


I think the body size thing might have to do with hitboxes


Imagine dark souls but you’re 3 times larger. That’d be unbearable


But that as a dex backflip build would be great


Catarina armor+Dark Wood Grain ring. It would be rough to get the equipment load low enough for the cartwheel, but that’d look hilarious


We don't need weapons


Well the giant dad pvp setup uses giant armor, which weighs more and still gets fast rolls. But that set uses the mask of the father and 66 endurance, so the Catarina armor might need to jack up endurance for it to work


Doesn't Dark Souls actually let you be fat though?


You can’t alter the size of your character that much. Some armor is real fat, but it doesn’t alter your hit box and clips a lot.


You can be thick bodied and some armors look quite fat.


Such a thing *could* be viable, you'd just need to balance the system with other benefits to being large, like increased bonus against enemy poise, or increased base poise yourself.


Apex legends does this and it's awesome. Thicc bois like Gibraltar and Caustic have larger hit boxes but more health, while smaller characters like Pathfinder and ~~mirage~~ Wraith have smaller hit boxes but take more damage.


There's something similar in Overwatch, it's not 100% scaled perfectly across the board, but most "regular size" people are 200hp. Tracer is tiny and fast and 150hp, as is DVA after she's knocked out of her mech suit. Mei, Brigitte, Doomfist, and Reaper, who are a hair larger than normal, are all 250hp. Bastion is huge for a DPS and 300hp, plus he's stationary a lot of the time. The tanks are the physically largest characters in the game, ranging from 400hp for the smallest tank and 500-600hp for the largest. There's a few exceptions (Lucio and Torbjorn are both 200hp despite being shorter than most) but you can reliably make solid guesses even when you're new to the game.


Or, just don't have model accurate hitboxes. Whdn DS2 came out, do you remember the amount the DS community moaned about hitboxes because of a clip of Pursuer hitting somebody in the foot at the end if a roll and killing them? You don't even want it but act like its a necessity.


If you 3 times larger but have longer reach...


I don’t think getting fat increases bone length but idk.


You don’t get longer if you get fat


I liked ESO's triangle drag-axis thingy that lets you pinpoint exactly where you want to be on the twig-chonk-beef scale. Not sure if it messes with hitboxes though.


I don’t think so, you pretty much get a hit “area”, like the weapons don’t actually have to physically collide with you, they just have to have targeted you and been within a certain radius


ESO plays it _wildly_ fast and loose with hit boxes anyway, there's no chance of your character's proportions mattering


The hitbox doesn't have to match the body size that closely, though. Most games probably have hitboxes that don't change much if at all. Otherwise players would just make tiny characters for the advantage of a smaller hitbox.


If it’s a multiplayer game it can mess up enemy aim by making them think they are hitting you when they aren’t, but in single player it might work depending on the game.


Viewmodel advantage is the advantage you get by having a viewmodel that doesn't match your hitbox. It doesn't come up super often (as long as hitboxes are properly working and not super broken), and the advantage is often negligible It's why I normally choose female characters, for that minuscule advantage. Definitely not repressed feelings


Wonder whether the Minecraft Bedrock developers were thinking about the viewmodel advantage that “short” skins have. Being able to hide behind single blocks is very OP, and it’s very difficult to find the hitbox of the invisible upper half. (and who the hell thought it was balanced to make armor invisible on those skins?!)


Legacy Edition's built-in minigames had an option to disable those skins. I miss Legacy's minigames


thats the point, the hitbox doesnt change and they dont want the body to go outside the hitbox


Tons of games that aren't "hitbox-based" if you will don't have said options either though, so I doubt that's the main culprit.


I've seen Sea of Thieves and The Sims who avoid such things. The Sims 4 is a bit more subdued with it, but Sims 3 gives you a myriad of colors to pick from and lets you be as fat as you want.


And the next sims update is supposed to completely revamp the skin tone selector with 100 skin tones ranging between all skin colors


I really hope they add more hair colors too because I’m so sick of using the same two browns and one blonde....


Most games are missing my hair color, and it's a very common one at that. It's a dark blond/light brown color Edit: shout out to Animal Crossing and Mii Maker though, they do have that color


Oh same, when I make myself I always end up way blonder than I really am.


It's kinda shocking to me how hard it is for games to just implement a black hair color instead of having the darkest color be dark brown


I wish they had two-tone hair. My IRL hair has highlights, and I wish I could do them in TS4.


Why not just RBG freedom? (although I think 100 presets could be good to include, especially for auto-generated characters)


Basically each color swatch has its own .png texture file in the game files.


Sea of Thieves doesn't let you actually customize your character, though, you just have to hit random until you find something you like or give up.


I mean, sea of thieves you straight up don't get to pick. You just keep rolling random characters until you find one that you like.


I have said this before and I’ll say it again. There is not a single game with a better character creator than Saints Row 2. How the fuck have we not made a better character creator? We had 12 years, and not a single game managed it?


I'm going to go ahead and throw Dragon's Dogma on the pile.


The only game I know with an actual height slider that means a damn.


It even affects gameplay! Smaller characters can climb through tight spaces to reach treasure, but can also be carried off by harpies and such.


Excuse you, dark souls 2, dark souls 3, nioh 2, and the new deamon souls remake would like to have a word with you.


Okay that’s fair I haven’t played those, they might have a better character creator.


The new demon's souls character creator is quite good but the older games also give you a big variety. My last bloodborne character was blue granny named brunhilda


i really need to get a souls game huh


That was coincidentally my last bloodborne character as well


Doesn't Dark Souls 2 require you to put a giant tattoo on your face to create a POC character with consistent skin tone?


Could you group CK3 into there too when the 1.2 patch comes out?


No idea what that is gamer.


PSO2 has pretty good character creator. ​ Lots of people still choose to play as most generic anime characters, but my friend had a pretty great fat Elvis Presley with boxing gloves on the Japanese server.


I've never played SR2, but I did play SR3. Is it really better than that one?




I guess I should play it then, as I really liked 3.


Soulcalibur 6


YUUUUUUP saints row 2 is such a good game it never gets the recognition it deserves


Didn't the new South Park game make it so that skin color was tied to game difficulty? Like a white character was "easy" mode, and a black character was "difficult" mode. Edit: [Here's a video about it](https://youtu.be/UH0obYbNRiM)


To quote Cartman during that part of character creation: "This doesn't affect combat. Just every other aspect of your life."


Lmfao really?




It didnt actually affect the difficulty level, it was just a joke label


at least saints row the third had the balls to make a good character creator customize the tits customize the dong make yourself fat give yourself bug eyes make the character hot make the character an eldricht monster give the female character a male voice and vice versa color the character silver emerald or gold i dont fucking care


Also make the character old or young. And you can change it later on.


For the first one there's somewhat a matter of animation rigging. If parts of a character model are significantly wider than was expected when the animations were made, you'll get a lot of clipping. If animations are made with a thicker character model in mind, then if you make the character model too thin they'll look awkward as they avoid self-collisions that aren't even close to actually happening. This is especially obvious in the games that actually do let you customize your proportions to a significant degree.


The single worst character creator is the ones from bad survival games. 7 days to die, ark survival evolved. Both have absolutely shit character creators


idk about skin tones but body size is probably due to coding hitboxes


Definitely not for ark. You can be a 3 foot tall eldrich monstrosity with arms thicker that your head and legs that go all the way up to your chest


Really? I would think that to get an advantage youd make yourself as small as possible?


I meant that hotboxes were not the limiting factor for body sizes.


Making abominations of mankind with Ark's is hilarious




I play with my husband and always make the most horrifying character I can We'll spawn into a new map and he'll be like "okay let's find each other" and when he sees me coming out of the trees, he just turns around and runs away, like WHY DO YOU DO THIS 😂


Sometimes you can pick between a few options for the face, hair and clothing (which is usually just picking colors in bad games), which all look terrible.


dude what are you talking about, making my character look as stupid as possible is the best part of Ark


Im the color of a cup of coffee with about 2 teaspoons of creamer, i never get to have an accurate character


I'm the color of a cardboard box, so sometimes I get lucky.


Like Metal Gear Solid?


The difference between the "Steve?" and "Alex?" character models in Minecraft is a single pixel of width on both arms.


Neither of them are for genders anyways. They're specifically stated to not have any. The difference is how slim or wide you wanna be, nothing else.


Pretty sure the exact quote it “Gender is not a thing of Minecraft.” The only confirmed biological sex is the Ender Dragon, who is female. Corrected gender to biological sex, thanks u/S19TealPenguin for correcting me


Every minecraft character (except the Ender Dragon) is nonbinary? *Y E S*


At least all farm animals are also nonbinary in terms of biological sex, as they can all reproduce in pairs, regardless of who you put together. One could call it intersex, but that doesn't really reflect well on humans who fall under that label. It's really more similar to cross-pollination in flowers.


The same condition in animals is called hermaphroditism, the animal would be called a hermaphrodite! One IRL example is earthworms. Obviously, the word hermaphrodite is not okay to use for humans.


It is anatomically impossible for humans to be hermaphrodites, hermaphroditism is exclusive to animals. In case anyone was wondering what's wrong with using it for humans.


To my knowledge, there have been no recorded cases where an intersex person can reproduce using both sets of reproductive organs, but isn't it possible in theory? The word hermaphrodite is inappropriate for describing humans because it is dehumanizing, not because the condition itself is exclusive to animals. Please correct me if I'm wrong, though, my understanding of biology is limited to undergrad level.


There isn't enough space to have fully-functional reproductive organs of both sexes afaik. One of the two is always underdeveloped. Plus, from what I understand, they kinda try to kill each other through hormones But also, my knowledge is based purely on internet research


They could also be like fish which shift genders. Schrodinger’s gender, as it were.


Except the bee who is trans


Confirmed biological sex, not gender


Ah, my bad.


IIRC it is a confirmed gender, Notch called her a woman named... I wanna say like Mary? Edit: turns out her name is Jean, not Mary


It's Jean?


if it was too drastic it would affect hitboxes and everyone would use the Alex model for pvp


The hit boxes are the same for both of the player models *ackshually*


Which makes even more sense. If you mess with the model too much it won’t be in line with the hitboxes and can cause a lot of really dumb moments.


"A single pixel of width" is a bit of an understatement, since Steve's arm is only four pixels wide. (And "only" is a bit of an understatement, too, since each pixel in Minecraft is canonically about 2.5 inches wide. Steve is *built*.)


I mean the skinny-fat option is probably more because they can’t animate *every* body type,that would either unnecessarily extend dev time or a *lot* of clipping would occur


Having seen skyrim modders manage to create systems that allow extensive body customization and even a generator for NPCs I'm skeptic. I think it's just a case of publishers and corporate pushing to get release asap so any features "nonessential" get cut.


Although, all the modders are doing is *just* making the extensive body options and NPC things, while the devs have to make the creator *and* the rest of the game (Sorry this is in 2 replies, this thought came to me seconds after I hit reply)


Yeah, this once more kind of plays into how little time devs get though imo. Skyrim saw a lot of cut features in this example. Such as the civil war was originally supposed to be a dynamic system where NPCs would fight over regions without waiting on the player, they would also commit sieges on forts and in a successful attack begin to attack the primary city of the region. This all came alongside additional units like imperial battle mages and stormcloak bezerkers. But instead we got the bare boned version where you do a dungeon quest and then fight like 10 NPCs at a fort... Overall I just think games would be significantly better if that pressure to release while hype is high wasn't a factor.


I mean, hype is in the ground for Bethesda games rn, with 76 being... well 76


Yeah 76 was such a travesty lol. I think people are still excited for starfield (maybe?) And tes6 though. I'm honestly not optimistic hearing microsoft bought Bethesda given Microsoft has a history of buying studios but not giving them the money to work well.


I'm hopeful for starfield. They are taking their sweet time and not releasing anything, so hopefully it will be completed when it does get a release. Then Elder scrolls 6! Fuck yeah! I'm on the hype train 100%.


Microsoft bought Bethesda?


About a month or so ago. I have no clue what that means for the company but people think it's a good thing. *nervously looks at all the shovelware microsoft had RARE make...*


I mean, I feel like the games would be much better because microsoft has a *MUCH* higher standard.


You’d think they’d try to readd it, given that they’ve released skyrim some seven times by now


Not as easy as it sounds. The dev team has moved on and the codebase isn't in a state where it would be easily modified. It's be like going into the Fellowship of the Ring and adding a plotline about a war between rivindell and Gondor. You can do it, but you can't just add it in without changing a lot of the rest of the games code. And its never a good idea to have a new team finish another teams product. In the end, it would be an expensive feature that would probably feel out of place and clunky and cause countless problems with the original game code.


So in order to save time and money, they... trim the fat?


\*Blastoise shooting Hydro Pump out of it's mouth flashbacks\*


Play Dragons Dogma.


I hope Cyberpunk blows this mold out of the water. Full race, gender, sex, and sexual orientation representation from the hints we've seen so far. Can't wait!


No mention of the actual facial features? My favorite example is Fallout 4 where every male character regardless of ethnicity looks blood related to the default male character.


Why can I find a purple option in the skin tone customization but not my actual skin tone 🥲


I once played a game where you could customise the color of the character's clothes. The available colors included white, a weird yellowed version of white, three different shades of blue, a sort of red-pinkish color, and gold, which is such a strange selection.


I'd rather be purple than any human shade to be honest.


You can be any version of a thin white person you want! YOU CAN EVEN BE ONE SHADE OF BLACK! THE POSSIBILITIES ARE ENDLESS


But not *too* black mind you! Gotta make sure you still can look semi white passing in the right lighting!


This is why I love the Dark Souls franchise. You want to be just some random fucken white dude? Go ahead. You wanna be a purple guy almost as wide as he is tall with a glowing green beard? Go right ahead.


This is why saints row is one of the best character creation games. The best being either 2 for actual trans character options or 4 for the wacky amount of options. Three is the middleman and 1 is the worst.


And then there's ark where I've made my character green.


That Star Wars MMO has four body types per gender. Males have skinny, muscular, tall and muscular, and hugely fat. Females have skinny, skinny with big boobs, tall with big boobs, and slightly larger booty.


I don't know what games you're playing, but the character creators for games have been pretty good for years now


Yet you can still make the head look like every single Jason Voorhees unmasked at once


What fucking games are you playing


Pokemon's been doing this lately


Remember when pokemon introduced customizable protagonists and they thought the most neccessary 3 skin tone options were white, *whiter*, and black?


Since game freak is Japanese, it’s probably meant to be white, Asian, and black


This is why miis are the superior character creator


"We offer every skin tone you could want. White, White 2, White 3, White 4, White 5, White 6, White 7, Pitch Black, Lizard, and Cat Person."


Game dev here. There’s a reason games (mainly action games) don’t let you be fat, that being the hurtboxes. It gives a disadvantage to players who make a fatter character.


Hey does anyone have that...flesh cloud post? Like with all the skin colors?


sometimes show just have one main character be black and all of the background characters and other main characters will be white


I wanna see a game with a simple art style have a character customization menu that doesn’t give any options. All the body types are exactly the same, only the default color but as a bunch of the same option, and other funny stuff like that.


it's ok. you can say the sims 2


[Meanwhile in Dark Souls..... ](https://s3.birthmoviesdeath.com/images/made/dark_souls_3_corndog_1200_679_81_s.jpg)


as a pakistani, i feel that second one


If you want custom clothes/armor, they can't conform to just any body type without screwing up. If you want all sorts of unique body types, you also need to alter and test each bit of custom apparel with all those types. There's also hitboxes to consider, and character animations... and imagine the headaches involved if you actually want characters to physically interact with eachother! No game developer has ever thought to themselves, "I want to give players *less* options". They would absolutely love to make customizable characters with all sorts of incredibly diverse shapes and sizes. It's just not feasible.


Also don’t forget the 1 darker skin is usually colored in a way that looks rly bad so it’s unusable